Adobe, Linux Support, and the Linux Foundation.

[gai.ra.III]

While generally I've only lurked the Adobe forums I've finally worked up guts to post this. I also know that about every 1-2 months this question is asked but I think it deserves a another go around.

My premises is this:

Adobe joined the Linux Foundation in 2008 for a focus on Linux for Web 2.0  Applications like Adobe® Flash® Player and Adobe AIR™. Currently Adobe holds a silver membership status with the Linux Foundation. So why in the world do they not have any Creative Cloud Programs available in Linux without the need for WINE and other such workarounds. I think it's a sucky move to support the Linux Foundation and use Linux in the back-end while not doing anything to support actual Linux users who have for at least a decade requested Adobe desktop products on Linux. Sure it's going to take a lot of manpower, financial resources, etc. But to truly support Linux and the Linux Foundation I think it's necessary that y'all do make things like Photoshop and Lightroom available for the Linux desktop. In any regards the wider Linux community would most likely help with testing and debugging programs. We're used to it.

[Abambo]

CesarAzevedoJr  wrote

Be that as it may and regardless of how many users you have in each OS, only use your data of 1.5%, there are more than 40 million users, most of which are high potential because they are Devs.

Most artists are doing art not programming.

CesarAzevedoJr  wrote

The only doubt I have and I know that you do not have the answer is if Adobe has purposely neglected Linux to favor Apple, in my view Apple is the one who benefits most from this situation, or even Microsoft Windows.

Adobe is an independent company. There products mostly come from the Mac world, however, because the Mac was at the time the only machine that fitted the peoples needs. It was a commercial decision from Adobe when they did the port to Windows and as I said before, Adobe did try different OS configurations like Irix. I was running Maya and it's predecessors on Unix workstations. Those programs have been ported to Windows and MacOS (still run under Linux) because of the potential that those platforms offer.

CesarAzevedoJr  wrote

So if it is in favor of other OS, by agreement or contract, without problems, Adobe has every right, but if it is, there is a lot of ethical failure, massive manipulation attempt, in claiming to develop that for Linux users do not compensate the effort. If so, Adobe should assume that it does not want its customers to use Linux instead of looking for meaningless excuses.

Adobe does not comment it's plans before it issues a release date. It does not issue meaningless excuses, at least I did not read some. The whole discussion is meaningless. Currently Adobe Creative Cloud software that you can buy does not run on Linux.

[Invité]

Fallacies!

Not every artist exclusively makes art. Not every programmer makes code exclusively. When I write "Linux Desktop", I mean who use GUI (Graphical User Interface), and uses GIMP, Netscape... artits and programmers! It does not go into that sum of the servers professionals, because if you count only how many programmers there are working on servers the sum is absurdly higher in comparison to other OSs.

Fallacies, fallacies, fallacies...

[matthiasb6541879]

Waiting for this for too long.

[jackdawrabbit]

I also have a simple truth : In percentages, linux users are still a minority, but in actual numbers there are hundreds of thousands of users if not many millions. I've seen thoses numbers but can't remember where, and I was thinking, if only a fraction of those users would subscribe to Adobe cloud, that would still mean a lot of money.

[Abambo]

I'm a subscriber to CC and I'm a Linux user. Does that mean anything in sales for Adobe? No certainly not! Any for profit company will jump on Linux when they see a possible market. That's why some companies have some of their products on Linux.

[jackdawrabbit]

But then you must also be a Windows or Apple user? I tried Adobe a while using VirtualBox on Linux, but that didn't really work the way I hoped. Now I'm thinking of buying a minimal Windows desktop so I can run LR, but on the other hand, I really getting used to Darktable.

[Abambo]

Yes, I'm a Windows user and an occasional MacOS (not only Apple!!!! as I use an iPhone and iPad) user.

[Abambo]

Well if it pleasures you, you may wait...

[Red Aqua Media]

Same here! I really would like to switch from Windows to Linux, but because I often use Photoshop and Lightroom, it's the only reason to have to stay in Windows OS. Pity.

I hope it will be happen very soon. Thanks!

[dodancs]

That's all nice, but Adobe should look at the recent trend to go all Linux with every service.

There are many advantages for the users and also the vendors. Since you develop the software, as Linux is open-source and anyone could contribute, maybe with a good business plan there wouldn't be to many resources "wasted" for porting CC to Linux.

Just look at google, the new streaming service they are making is going to run on Linux. Steam is constantly trying to tell developers to go Linux and also does some work themselves to make it happen.

Sure it is hard to re-code and develop many parts of the CC suite, but many of the apps also use a common framework of sorts so that means less to do. Also many technologies used on Linux are open to public and they have a lot of documentation so they are easier to use.

Also, if Adobe provided an easy way of running the existing CC suite on Linux, for example just a simple virtualization or Wine in the background that would make it almost seamless to use CC suite on Linux, it would be much better than no support at all.

And, not to forgot - Macs are Linux. 99% linux + some magic sparkly dust on top. Porting a Mac version should not be any hard. I know there are differences, but many libraries and other things related to the OS are the same on any Linux and MacOS.

Any comments on this?

[Abambo]

dodancs  wrote

And, not to forgot - Macs are Linux. 99% linux + some magic sparkly dust on top. Porting a Mac version should not be any hard. I know there are differences, but many libraries and other things related to the OS are the same on any Linux and MacOS.

That proves that you do not understand about what you're talking. MacOS is build on a flavour of Unix that is not Linux.

macOS version history - Wikipedia .

[Invité]

When he said "99%" was not in the statistical sense (mathematics), it was a way of saying that for an organization like Adobe there are not many difficulties in the way of implementation in Linux.

I think that the outdated one is you, dear ACP, give a google about Snaps ( https://docs.snapcraft.io/snap-documentation/3781  ) and you will see that there is no longer the difficulty of implementation with only one software version to several distinct distros, because SNAPS are encapsulated as containers.

"Snaps are app packages for desktop, cloud and IoT that are easy to install, secure, cross-platform and dependency-free."

Just remembering what has already been said by me in this discussion:

Technically we know that there is not much difference between what is programmed for MacOS to work on Linux, obvious that it requires a little more recourse, but at least half way is already done. See the testimony of this technology company:
Mac and Linux Development | Custom Software Development

In this link ( https://snapcraft.io/​ ) has a tutorial on how to make a Snap in 30 minutes, just choose the language, see the image. If any 14-year-old can do it, I imagine it's not too difficult for Adobe engineers to do as well. That is, 99% that works!

[Invité]

Abambo At least send this discussion to your superiors. It's the least you can do.

[Abambo]

My superiors are more interested in industrial goods for the heavy industry. I'm a user of Adobe products.

Adobe people are not participating in this discussion. I only once saw a comment from an Adobe guy on a similar thread (this threads revive each few months), where he stated that Adobe has studied porting the programs to Linux, but for different reasons did decide not to pursue.

Adobe people are marked STAFF and have an Adobe logo behind their name.

[Sterphy]

No that's just silly.  Apple are clearly giving up on computers to focus on selling phones for the easily confused market. We will soon be in a situation where creative apps (computer apps, not the useless mobile app fluff adobe churn out) will effectively be on Windows only. I'd prefer some more choice for my editing rig than Windows or make some amateur thing on an iPad

[Abambo]

I explain: The kernel is the least part of the porting. That is easy with command line programs, but not that easy with graphical programs. MacOS is driven by a UNIX kernel, but what makes MacOS unique is the graphical framework.

Similar, Windows has some UNIX, some VAX/VMS elements and some of it's own. But you can probably port easily command line programs from the UNIX world to the Windows world. But as soon as you have a graphics frame work it's starting to get complicated.

Also some of the Adobe products are very near to the machine level for optimal performance. Those normally do not translate well between OSes, even that we can now be quite sure that we stay on Windows PC hardware with Linux computers.

Linux is a great OS and it has it's applications, where it is leading. There is probably no supercomputer that has not a flavor of Linux. A vast majority of the web servers run Linux. My router is basically a Linux computer. My TV is a Linux computer.

[Abambo]

Gibsonsg88  wrote

(...)  Apple are clearly giving up on computers to focus on selling phones for the easily confused market. We will soon be in a situation where creative apps (computer apps, not the useless mobile app fluff adobe churn out) will effectively be on Windows only. I'd prefer some more choice for my editing rig than Windows or make some amateur thing on an iPad

Did you know that Adobe is porting Photoshop to the iPad? https://www.adobe.com/uk/creativecloud/photoshop-ecosystem.html

[ufficiograficoit]

HI !

I have a different point of view.

After read some many bla bla bla, i think so.

Company want only $, so Linux isnt on his visual.

Linux is stable, efficient, no cost if you want, so, for now, is a strange system for company like Adobe and Microsoft, but they use Linux inside this company, that's ironic. Microsoft use for Azure, Adobe for other.

Think, in the future, Microsoft build some version of Win10 based on linux, i'm sure.

I hope some open source product work better in the future, like Scribus, Inkscape, Gimp and other, so we dont put on WC many other money.

[OscarNebeAbad]

Im subscriber since years to Complete CC and I work in MacOS and Windows because I cant use it in Linux if not I moved out years ago...the other tools I need: VSCode, Alicevision Meshroom, Blender. Substance and Davinci actually works on Linux... C'mon Adobe, wake up! Even Valve struggle for gaming desktop in linux with Wine fork Proton...

[Nancy OShea]

Linux appeals more to coders than designers.

Maybe that's why Adobe Brackets works on Linux.

Brackets - A modern, open source code editor that understands web design.

[Abambo]

You may submit your wish:

Feature Request/Bug Report Form

[OscarNebeAbad]

I think better I will push to remove Adobe CC from my workflow.

[WHK102]

getsatisfaction link is broken.

[VkonArch]

It's not the numbers that don't add up. It's the fact that many users have dual boot systems, and only Microsoft records the data and reports it.

I've been an avid Linux user for 3 years now and I do all my visuals there, including all my business material with ease. Lately the OS has become extremely viable with good support by both companies and it's community. And now with Valve's Proton, even the latest Windows games play flawlessly. I've actually tested it, so I know it works.

Back to the visuals, Black Magic is doing big steps to secure the Linux market, and lets be honest, all major VFX studios have Linux as a prerequisite. That's because all major applications work there much better and crashes are minimal, if non existent. The only app crash I've seen are in beta testing. Additionally, the reason there are so many companies that support Windows and Mac for their utilities especially, is that there are no alternatives. So, most seek the easy solution for video transcoding, audio reformatting etc.

The C language basically depends on two major things: the compiler and the external libraries. I played a little with the C++ and I have options to compile for any platform, as long as the respective compiler is there. Therefore, I trust the real technical issue is the libraries. Adobe uses Directx, Linux uses Opengl and Vulcan. The latter is up to par with Directx. Not to mention Apple uses mainly Opengl, so that isn't exactly an excuse either.  Therefore the effort to port the applications is minimal. The true reason I suspect has to do with contract partnerships between Adobe, Microsoft and Apple. Because imagine, should the Adobe Suite and the Office 365 become available on Linux, it will sooner or later spell doom for the two companies. Perhaps not so much for Apple that builds hardware and locks it, but Microsoft will definitely feel it.

[WaywardHam]

Hi Everyone,

I just thought I'd bring up a different perspective. Everyone talks about private computing, or corporate users, but it honestly surprises me the complete disregard that the research world seems to get. Maybe because they don't get out much... who knows.

I've been using Linux in various flavours since 2001, and the general user-friendliness of distributions like Ubuntu have addressed most of the problems long-associated with Linux. The biggest obstacle now, (at least in my experience) is the availability of industry-grade software for Linux. Imagine if Adobe wasn't made available for MacOS? How many people would be using it today?

Linux users seem to suffer from the "chicken and egg" situation caused by corporate inertia. Every software company complains about "how few people use Linux" to justify doing nothing. It would only take a few big software firms to start supporting Linux like Autodesk and Adobe (and that's just the As)  to radically change that landscape, and encourage much wider adoption of Linux in the general population.

The ability to build custom PCs with a good performance-to-value ratio, drop a stable, free OS like Linux on it, and use commercial software to get stuff done would be the holy trifecta for many users, ranging from small businesses, researchers, students, and even larger organizations. We'd finally be able to squeeze more performance from our systems, regardless of the price we'd paid for it.

I've worked as an IT Systems Administrator, Systems Engineer, and Solutions Architect for several research schools for the Australian National University. In the Research School of Chemistry, in the computational Chemistry division alone, there's 50 users running Ubuntu who'd desperately appreciate the ability to use Adobe products without dual-booting into Windows. In the Research School of Information Sciences and Engineering, I can think of another 100 people who'd dump Windows in a heart beat if they could use Adobe's and/or AutoDesk's products with it. The cost savings in the digital media school, if they were suddenly freed from paying Apple prices for borderline-adequate hardware, could afford some serious upgrades in RAM, CPUs, Video cards, NASs, more than enough to upgrade to a rig capable of editing vast tracts of 4K footage, and high detail 3D rendering.

While MacOS X does have some proprietary elements. It still has a strong basis on Unix. Building a precompiled binary for a common distribution like Ubuntu shouldn't require the "reinventing the wheel" level of difficulty implied by others here.

As a web designer, IT support, in-house research photographer, and now a small-business operator. I can assure you that businesses and universities alike are cutting costs, and are all about the Return on Investment. (ROI). Stale arguments about Linux not being worthwhile are short-sighted.

Honestly, I consider myself amongst the first people who would ditch Windows if I could run Adobe software on Linux. I'm just unwilling to pay Apple prices for hardware, and I'm honestly tired of the unnecessary bloat, constant update-based restarts that Windows forces upon it's users.

I know my opinion isn't worth much, but I'd happily offer any assistance, testing, and feedback toward getting Adobe to join the Linux bandwagon. 🙂

Please pass this request on to whoever might like to take the challenge up.

Kind Regards,

Hamish.